Dealing with Douchebags

[10:02:58] Affiliate X: Hey Tom, how are you? Jsut a quick follow up with you to see if you had chance to go over the email with the offer we discussed for our facebook tipping page last week?
[10:03:14] Tom Galanis: hi mate
[10:03:20] Tom Galanis: I don’t think I received it
[10:03:26] Tom Galanis: could you send again?
[10:04:09] Affiliate X: Sure, give me a few mins. Will let you know when I have sent it
[10:08:56] Affiliate X: Resent, please confirm you received it. Cheers
[10:09:25] Affiliate X: From XXXXXXXXXXXX@gmail.com
[10:11:55] Tom Galanis: received – could you tell me the following: how big is your email database? how many are active?
[10:12:25] Tom Galanis: bottom line is this – from your proposal, any one of my clients is going to want to work on a CPA basis if you are “guaranteeing 10 customers”
[10:12:53] Affiliate X: It is basically people off the page who have signed upto receiving the horse racing email tips from us. There is around 200 at the moment
[10:12:53] Tom Galanis: I can’t see anyone going for the £500 flat fee
[10:13:19] Affiliate X: Ok mate, I can’t do anything on a CPA basis as we have a few prepaid deals on there and obviously they take priority
[10:13:27] Tom Galanis: to give you an idea, I get anxious about signing off £500 flat fees for a mailshot to 200k databases
[10:13:52] Tom Galanis: 200 potentials is not going to excite them, I’m afraid
[10:14:09] Tom Galanis: so tough to monetise facebook traffic
[10:14:13] Affiliate X: Sure, but it is not just the email that they will be being promoted on mate
[10:14:36] Tom Galanis: I appreciate that, but I can’t see anyone getting 10 customers from the facebook page
[10:15:08] Affiliate X: bxx3xx have with us and Wxxxxxx Hxxx have been working with us for about 2 weeks and have 4 new depositors
[10:15:59] Affiliate X: Not sure why you don’t think any new depositors will come from it. You can’t get anymore targeted to people on a tipping page, can you?
[10:20:10] Tom Galanis: well, how are you generating traffic?
[10:21:07] Tom Galanis: I could get 1045 people to like my dead dog’s funeral page – the question is, how active are they?
[10:21:49] Affiliate X: Mainly through liking comments on other betting related pages which results in them coming to our page and liking ours. You can see how active they are by looking at the page mate
[10:23:00] Tom Galanis: If you’re confident, why not work on a CPA or a revenue share?
[10:23:16] Tom Galanis: I could even give you a percentage of the turnover with one of my clients
[10:23:21] Tom Galanis: far more lucrative
[10:24:07] Affiliate X: The only reason is because I have prepaid deals with 3 other clients and obviously I want to keep them happy and deliver more players for them so they renew with us
[10:24:14] Tom Galanis: I’ll be honest with you. Most affiliates wanting a £500 flat rate – and I’m not labelling you as one – do nothing to warrant it and operators rarely see a return
[10:24:32] Tom Galanis: If you were using the funds to personally fund prizes, then great
[10:24:52] Tom Galanis: so your clients include bxx3xx?
[10:25:30] Affiliate X: I am running a campaign for bxx3xx through a betting portal and I am working with Wxxxxxx Hxxx direct
[10:26:04] Tom Galanis: which portals do you have? I notice a few linked to
[10:27:07] Affiliate X: I don’t have any sites but we have a few being built as we speak. I mean it is a guy that owns a betting portal that is running the bxx3xx campaign through us
[10:27:18] Tom Galanis: Jxxxxxx Bxxxx?
[10:27:41] Affiliate X: Not with the bxx3xx campaign but the racetips and bettingon sites we promote yes
[10:27:56] Tom Galanis: how does that deal work?
[10:28:04] Affiliate X: Flat rate for a month
[10:28:56] Tom Galanis: so how do you make money from bxx3xx?
[10:29:40] Affiliate X: The guy who has the betting portal paid us for 10 new depositing players, like the deal I mentioned to you. We delivered the 10 players and now he has renewed with us for a further 10
[10:29:56] Tom Galanis: ah ok
[10:29:58] Tom Galanis: I see
[10:30:23] Tom Galanis: surely, my interest is dealing directly with them then?
[10:30:37] Tom Galanis: I’ll be getting traffic from their site and also from you
[10:31:00] Affiliate X: Not sure what you mean mate?
[10:31:43] Tom Galanis: well, if I already have a deal in place with the betting portal, I should mention that we’d be keen on seeing some more Facebook traffic
[10:31:48] Tom Galanis: and he’d do the deal with you
[10:31:56] Tom Galanis: takes an element of risk out for me
[10:33:40] Affiliate X: I am not sure he would as I asked him if he wanted to run one of his other brands and he said he just wants to run one at a time
[10:34:25] Affiliate X: It’s totally your call mate, if you want to speak to your clients and see what they say then do it but if you don’t feel comfortable with it then leave it. As I say mate, it’s totally your call
[10:35:48] Tom Galanis: if you’d consider a CPA deal, it’s workable
[10:35:58] Tom Galanis: from your perspective, I can’t see how your model is sustainable
[10:36:10] Tom Galanis: and operators won’t pay an affiliate who isn’t going to hang around
[10:37:32] Affiliate X: I am here for the long haul mate. What makes you think I am not going to hang around?
[10:40:09] Tom Galanis: I can see that’s your intention – but your model isn’t sustainable
[10:40:21] Tom Galanis: bookmakers won’t keep paying you £500 a month
[10:43:01] Affiliate X: It is not necessarily every month. It is when each 10 new punters have been delivered and if we continue to deliver the punters I can’t see why the bookmakers wouldn’t want more?
[10:43:50] Tom Galanis: Surely you would prefer a £51 CPA?
[10:44:55] Affiliate X: Yes, but not while we have prepaid deals in place as they take priority for obvious reasons
[10:45:10] Tom Galanis: but you would earn more money from that CPA?
[10:45:34] Tom Galanis: my point is – eventually, this model will stop delivering players
[10:45:48] Tom Galanis: and you’ll be indebted to bookmakers
[10:45:56] Tom Galanis: I assume you’d pay them back
[10:46:05] Tom Galanis: but others might be a bit more sceptical
[10:46:23] Affiliate X: Yes, but I am not sure why you think it will stop delivering players when there is between 30-50 new likes coming in per day?
[10:46:36] Tom Galanis: a CPA deal offers them security, build trust and a sustainable partnership
[10:48:40] Tom Galanis: the way a lot of affiliate managers will see this is – £500 – that’s not a lot of my budget is it? But if he gets 6 of those deals in every month, that’s a £50k salary
[10:48:49] Tom Galanis: let’s be honest here – the page isn’t a lot of work
[10:49:00] Tom Galanis: 1045 likes doesn’t get me a return
[10:49:24] Tom Galanis: I’m turning down upfront deals for websites that rank 2 or 3 on google for some unbelievable keyword terms
[10:49:57] Tom Galanis: they are far more stable and get considerably more (roughly 1000x) traffic than your page
[10:51:29] Affiliate X: Sure mate, as I mentioned it is totally your call. I am not forcing you into anything but just trying to get my point across by telling you the punters won’t dry up with more new people coming on the page on a daily basis and they are all targeted not just people that are interested in other things but they are interested in betting
[10:53:10] Tom Galanis: I’m sorry. It just won’t work for any of my clients. It’s an unsustainable model and I cannot believe Wxxxxxx Hxxx and bxx3xx are paying to be sat there. Best of luck, but I’m out
[10:53:26] Affiliate X: No worries at all mate
[10:53:33] Affiliate X: Best thing for us to do mate would probably be, if we have any CPA deals become available then to give you a shout but at the moment I can’t run a standard CPA deal over prepaid deals when I have promised players to those that have already paid me
[10:54:42] Tom Galanis: Realistically, you’ll be looking at a £10 CPA from most bookies – customer value from Facebook is so low
[10:55:26] Affiliate X: For what reason is it low?
[10:56:31] Tom Galanis: Customer Values from Facebook are low
[10:56:40] Tom Galanis: bookmakers have stats on all of this
[10:58:42] Affiliate X: Ok mate, we have had a couple of good redepositors across the 2 brands we are working with
[11:01:51] Tom Galanis: 2 redepositors isn’t going to cover £500 though…
[11:02:17] Tom Galanis: you need to remember that bookmakers will be expecting to make at the very least £1500 from a £500 spend
[11:02:39] Tom Galanis: 2 good redepositors won’t do that for anyone, on average
[11:03:10] Tom Galanis: you’ll need to be very lucky – and some of the best affiliates I know have not made that luck through facebook
[11:04:42] Affiliate X: It is 2 good redepositors over a 3 week period, what if another 2 good depositors come in another few weeks, then another 2 and so on?
[11:05:21] Tom Galanis: what if indeed
[11:05:34] Tom Galanis: why not work on a revenue share deal?
[11:05:47] Tom Galanis: this is my point – if you’re confident, you’ll earn more money that way
[11:06:39] Tom Galanis: you’ll also have the bookmakers’ support on any future work
[11:06:43] Tom Galanis: the site, for instance
[11:06:56] Affiliate X: We are confident but we are tied to these deals at the moment as I mentioned and as I said if we ever have any room for a CPA/Rev Share deals then I will contact you but for now we are tied to these deals and our priority is to deliver for them
[11:08:08] Tom Galanis: sincerely, best of luck with that – my advice would be to focus on delivering for Wxxxxxx Hxxx. Those guys are pretty ruthless when it comes to getting money back
[11:09:17] Affiliate X: We are over halfway to delivering what we promised to them mate and they have only been running with us for 2 weeks, in another 2 weeks the first campaign will be done and dusted
[11:09:28] Tom Galanis: great stuff

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